By Daniel Kassell
Billy Taylor was a generous man. His enthusiasm relating his memories of seeing Fats and how that influenced his piano style was contagious. To me “Billy was it! He cut it, man!" I offer this in tribute to our greatest jazz media personality.
At the International Association of Jazz Educators Convention publicist Arnold Jay Smith arranged a private interview with pianist educator Billy Taylor on January 24, 2004:
Dan Kassell: Well I want to thank you in advance for joining me this morning.
Billy Taylor: My pleasure, Dan. Well, you know, Fats Waller is a special man. He was my first big influence. My Uncle Bob was a big Fats Waller and Willie the Lion fan, you know. And he laid that on me that was the way he played, because those were the group of guys that he liked. But I kept bugging him about teaching me. Three quarters all my father's brothers were musicians. I kept bugging him saying “I want to do that." And he said “Oh, no, you go study the music and make sure you got piano lessons and everything."
DK: What age were you then?
BT: I was what? Seven. Six or seven, somethin' like that. And he said “I want you to listen to this guy." Fats Waller was accessible. And I said “Man, this guy was you know like in theories, curly notes and hearing the kinds of things that really . . . it was so cleanly played, and so rhythmically, and it had elements that were much more appealing to me than any other music that I was hearing at that time as a kid. You know, and I'm not talking about his singing. Everybody, you know . . . he's famous as a singer. And of course that was what I heard a lot of because he was so famous, but I'm always listening, you know, when he'd stop singin' and somethin' else was goin' on and I'd say “Oh, man, that was gorgeous!" So Waller was highly placed in my head at that time. That was something that I said “Gee, I just want to do that. Cuz' this is so gorgeous."
BT: Well, that was a quality that he presented in all of . . . it's in everything he did . . . all of his playing had that quality. I mean, whether he was playing with Louis Armstrong or whether he was playing one of those shows. When I began to really listen to Fats Waller, the fun thing for me was when he did a show at the Howard Theater in Washington and he was the star. There was another pianist, who played the show, I know the guy, he was a wonderful . . . he was a fine pianist, himself. Anyway, he was playing with the band and at some point in the show they would always have this battle where the musicians would heckle him, “Oh, Fats, he's getting' you tonight." Or, “He's gonna' get you." Sayin' “You better not come out again." And all of this stuff, and putting him on. And he said “Oh, no, I got him. I got him." It's on one of the records that he did like that.
BT: Oh, yeah! Well, you know, this is one of those places where we went and I have another story about Waller there. Fats, he loved the Howard Theater because that was on the TOBA circuit. But actually, the first time I ever really saw him was at the Lincoln Theater, which was on U Street, all the black community went . . . . and the reason he played the Lincoln Theater was because they had an organ. And so he did a solo appearance at the Lincoln Theater and man, I was enamored, the Lincoln Theater was about 4 or 5 blocks from where I lived, and so I went in and I said I'm gonna' meet this guy, you know, this is my favorite player ( grins and chuckles) today and I want to say hello to him. Well, he was so outgoing, you know, so bigger than life man. I went backstage and it was small, you know, and this wasn't like the Howard, this was small backstage and everything. So he came right out. And when he came out, you know, I kinda stood there and said “OK." And I didn't say anything, you know, and so he walked on (chuckle). And he walked down the street, so I followed him, and he went around the front of the theater and there was a hamburger place. And he went into the hamburger place. Evidently he'd been doing this for awhile. And all the guys knew him and they were talking to him. And you know, it was the closest I could get to him, but not close enough to attract his attention. So I'm sitting there listening to him and he's telling these stories and the guys are laughing. It's like a party or somethin,' you know. It was just a wonderful thing. And he must've eaten 45 hamburgers. Man, this guy was eatin' like crazy. And as soon as he was finished, the guy would bring him another hamburger.
DK: So, you're confirming the myth about Fats and all his hamburgers?
BT: No, no!
DK: You personally experienced what we only read about?
BT: Yeah.
DK: And the number gets bigger and bigger every time. You said 45 but it could have been 25?
BT: No, I'm exaggerating it. . . . he ate a lot . . . . a regular-sized hamburger. And I'm thinking “Wow, this guy . . . what a life," you know (chuckle).
DK: Did you speak with him? Did you actually get to . . .
BT: No, no but when I saw him, man. I mean, I was just so in awe of him and of his music. He had a presence in person that was . . . it's the star presence, you know like, Louis had it . . .
DK: You must be experiencing that, too; most of your career.
BT: Oh, nothing like that (with a smile).
DK: Not recognition?
BT: Oh, yeah, you know I get, you know . . . I've been around a long time, so a lot of people know me and that's from television, it's from all of the stuff that I do. But this, this was different. It's sheer artistry of this man . . . transcends, that transcended anything I've ever read about him. Because he was funny, he was the kind of guy that I as a kid would love to . . . you know, I wish I were old enough to hang out with him.
DK: Wow, that's great. Yeah, you mentioned earlier piano influences from seven you started to develop your own desire. What was your beginning with Fats Waller's music?
BT: The first thing I remember of his . . . was I fell in love with “Jitterbug Waltz." I love that, it was so melodic and such a great piece. But prior to that I had heard him create his “Ain't Misbehavin'" and I . . . man, that was one of the things that I had learned how to play that. It was a good tune and it had that, you know . . . My uncle played it . . . a stride piano version of it, and that was good (chuckle).
BT: That was really the first Fats I can remember.
DK: The first? And Jitterbug (Waltz) was the second. I was referencing Don Lambert because I wanted to ask you how, stylistically, the piano and the whole idea, how that began to influence you? What did you believe was unique?
BT: The left hand was the thing that was the most outstanding in the piano that I was listening to. The men like Fats Waller, especially, . . . they played 10ths and they played . . . they did all the tricks that the older musicians older than they talked about, Eubie Blake and all of them. Fats Waller had his share of tricks and he would do back-bass or he'd hit the thumb first and then the little finger. He would do . . . different kinds of things which, rhythmically, threw the pulse off, but didn't stop the pulse. You know, it was (sings the beat) dumb-doom-du-du . . . it wasn't one he's playing with his left hand. He would play two notes, you know, doom-doom . . . then doo-dumb, chord. And things like that (chuckle). And it was . . . the manner in which each one does it is so personal that, you know, you say “Oh, that's Donald," or “Oh, that's Willie the Lion," you know. (chuckle) And it's the same device, but everybody has their own take on it, you know.
DK: His whole career, obviously shortened, but your recollection as it grew from your first experience of him to December 1943 his passing, how do talk about, think about his whole career, from a musician's point of view; from a pianist's point of view, not Billy Taylor, the correspondent?
BT: Fats Waller was one of the great jazz pianists. I mean, he stands with Tatum. As a matter-of-fact, Tatum, really . . . I respected him very much. And often gave him credit, saying “That's Waller. That's where I came from." You know, cuz he had that much respect for him. And realizing that this was man who, melodically, he was a wonderful tunesmith. I mean, he just didn't make up tunes and sell 'em and do whatever he wanted to do with them. But, I mean, and he had that gift. I mean, he heard things like that. And he was a phenomenal musician. I read about him when I was younger, because, you know, if there was something in the paper about him or anything like that . . . and he was news, you know. And . . . he was in the movies . . . and he did all these things. So he was a much larger-than-life character to me. And I especially loved the kinds of things that he played because it really . . . it was so human . . . it touched such a wide range of people. I mean, with all the comedy and stuff that he would play something and it would be so beautiful. And you'd say “Oh, gee, what is that? That's lovely," you know. I mean, but he had that kind of a touch on the piano I mean, just a gorgeous touch on piano. And it really . . . I wish I could have heard him in some of those shows like the ones he did with Louis Armstrong and some of those things. Because on Broadway, that was his element, too. I mean, he and Louis used to fight it out, you know, backstage in terms of who was going to get the most applause and who was going to bring the house down first, you know. And that's . . . those are the kinds of things I wish I had been old enough to attend. With all the older guys that I think we talked about.
. . . “Oh, yeah, Fats was it! He cut it, man!"
Billy Taylor was a generous man. His enthusiasm relating his memories of seeing Fats and how that influenced his piano style was contagious. To me “Billy was it! He cut it, man!" I offer this in tribute to our greatest jazz media personality.
At the International Association of Jazz Educators Convention publicist Arnold Jay Smith arranged a private interview with pianist educator Billy Taylor on January 24, 2004:
Dan Kassell: Well I want to thank you in advance for joining me this morning.
Billy Taylor: My pleasure, Dan. Well, you know, Fats Waller is a special man. He was my first big influence. My Uncle Bob was a big Fats Waller and Willie the Lion fan, you know. And he laid that on me that was the way he played, because those were the group of guys that he liked. But I kept bugging him about teaching me. Three quarters all my father's brothers were musicians. I kept bugging him saying “I want to do that." And he said “Oh, no, you go study the music and make sure you got piano lessons and everything."
DK: What age were you then?
BT: I was what? Seven. Six or seven, somethin' like that. And he said “I want you to listen to this guy." Fats Waller was accessible. And I said “Man, this guy was you know like in theories, curly notes and hearing the kinds of things that really . . . it was so cleanly played, and so rhythmically, and it had elements that were much more appealing to me than any other music that I was hearing at that time as a kid. You know, and I'm not talking about his singing. Everybody, you know . . . he's famous as a singer. And of course that was what I heard a lot of because he was so famous, but I'm always listening, you know, when he'd stop singin' and somethin' else was goin' on and I'd say “Oh, man, that was gorgeous!" So Waller was highly placed in my head at that time. That was something that I said “Gee, I just want to do that. Cuz' this is so gorgeous."
BT: Well, that was a quality that he presented in all of . . . it's in everything he did . . . all of his playing had that quality. I mean, whether he was playing with Louis Armstrong or whether he was playing one of those shows. When I began to really listen to Fats Waller, the fun thing for me was when he did a show at the Howard Theater in Washington and he was the star. There was another pianist, who played the show, I know the guy, he was a wonderful . . . he was a fine pianist, himself. Anyway, he was playing with the band and at some point in the show they would always have this battle where the musicians would heckle him, “Oh, Fats, he's getting' you tonight." Or, “He's gonna' get you." Sayin' “You better not come out again." And all of this stuff, and putting him on. And he said “Oh, no, I got him. I got him." It's on one of the records that he did like that.
BT: Oh, yeah! Well, you know, this is one of those places where we went and I have another story about Waller there. Fats, he loved the Howard Theater because that was on the TOBA circuit. But actually, the first time I ever really saw him was at the Lincoln Theater, which was on U Street, all the black community went . . . . and the reason he played the Lincoln Theater was because they had an organ. And so he did a solo appearance at the Lincoln Theater and man, I was enamored, the Lincoln Theater was about 4 or 5 blocks from where I lived, and so I went in and I said I'm gonna' meet this guy, you know, this is my favorite player ( grins and chuckles) today and I want to say hello to him. Well, he was so outgoing, you know, so bigger than life man. I went backstage and it was small, you know, and this wasn't like the Howard, this was small backstage and everything. So he came right out. And when he came out, you know, I kinda stood there and said “OK." And I didn't say anything, you know, and so he walked on (chuckle). And he walked down the street, so I followed him, and he went around the front of the theater and there was a hamburger place. And he went into the hamburger place. Evidently he'd been doing this for awhile. And all the guys knew him and they were talking to him. And you know, it was the closest I could get to him, but not close enough to attract his attention. So I'm sitting there listening to him and he's telling these stories and the guys are laughing. It's like a party or somethin,' you know. It was just a wonderful thing. And he must've eaten 45 hamburgers. Man, this guy was eatin' like crazy. And as soon as he was finished, the guy would bring him another hamburger.
DK: So, you're confirming the myth about Fats and all his hamburgers?
BT: No, no!
DK: You personally experienced what we only read about?
BT: Yeah.
DK: And the number gets bigger and bigger every time. You said 45 but it could have been 25?
BT: No, I'm exaggerating it. . . . he ate a lot . . . . a regular-sized hamburger. And I'm thinking “Wow, this guy . . . what a life," you know (chuckle).
DK: Did you speak with him? Did you actually get to . . .
BT: No, no but when I saw him, man. I mean, I was just so in awe of him and of his music. He had a presence in person that was . . . it's the star presence, you know like, Louis had it . . .
DK: You must be experiencing that, too; most of your career.
BT: Oh, nothing like that (with a smile).
DK: Not recognition?
BT: Oh, yeah, you know I get, you know . . . I've been around a long time, so a lot of people know me and that's from television, it's from all of the stuff that I do. But this, this was different. It's sheer artistry of this man . . . transcends, that transcended anything I've ever read about him. Because he was funny, he was the kind of guy that I as a kid would love to . . . you know, I wish I were old enough to hang out with him.
DK: Wow, that's great. Yeah, you mentioned earlier piano influences from seven you started to develop your own desire. What was your beginning with Fats Waller's music?
BT: The first thing I remember of his . . . was I fell in love with “Jitterbug Waltz." I love that, it was so melodic and such a great piece. But prior to that I had heard him create his “Ain't Misbehavin'" and I . . . man, that was one of the things that I had learned how to play that. It was a good tune and it had that, you know . . . My uncle played it . . . a stride piano version of it, and that was good (chuckle).
BT: That was really the first Fats I can remember.
DK: The first? And Jitterbug (Waltz) was the second. I was referencing Don Lambert because I wanted to ask you how, stylistically, the piano and the whole idea, how that began to influence you? What did you believe was unique?
BT: The left hand was the thing that was the most outstanding in the piano that I was listening to. The men like Fats Waller, especially, . . . they played 10ths and they played . . . they did all the tricks that the older musicians older than they talked about, Eubie Blake and all of them. Fats Waller had his share of tricks and he would do back-bass or he'd hit the thumb first and then the little finger. He would do . . . different kinds of things which, rhythmically, threw the pulse off, but didn't stop the pulse. You know, it was (sings the beat) dumb-doom-du-du . . . it wasn't one he's playing with his left hand. He would play two notes, you know, doom-doom . . . then doo-dumb, chord. And things like that (chuckle). And it was . . . the manner in which each one does it is so personal that, you know, you say “Oh, that's Donald," or “Oh, that's Willie the Lion," you know. (chuckle) And it's the same device, but everybody has their own take on it, you know.
DK: His whole career, obviously shortened, but your recollection as it grew from your first experience of him to December 1943 his passing, how do talk about, think about his whole career, from a musician's point of view; from a pianist's point of view, not Billy Taylor, the correspondent?
BT: Fats Waller was one of the great jazz pianists. I mean, he stands with Tatum. As a matter-of-fact, Tatum, really . . . I respected him very much. And often gave him credit, saying “That's Waller. That's where I came from." You know, cuz he had that much respect for him. And realizing that this was man who, melodically, he was a wonderful tunesmith. I mean, he just didn't make up tunes and sell 'em and do whatever he wanted to do with them. But, I mean, and he had that gift. I mean, he heard things like that. And he was a phenomenal musician. I read about him when I was younger, because, you know, if there was something in the paper about him or anything like that . . . and he was news, you know. And . . . he was in the movies . . . and he did all these things. So he was a much larger-than-life character to me. And I especially loved the kinds of things that he played because it really . . . it was so human . . . it touched such a wide range of people. I mean, with all the comedy and stuff that he would play something and it would be so beautiful. And you'd say “Oh, gee, what is that? That's lovely," you know. I mean, but he had that kind of a touch on the piano I mean, just a gorgeous touch on piano. And it really . . . I wish I could have heard him in some of those shows like the ones he did with Louis Armstrong and some of those things. Because on Broadway, that was his element, too. I mean, he and Louis used to fight it out, you know, backstage in terms of who was going to get the most applause and who was going to bring the house down first, you know. And that's . . . those are the kinds of things I wish I had been old enough to attend. With all the older guys that I think we talked about.
. . . “Oh, yeah, Fats was it! He cut it, man!"
