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An Interview with Buke and Gass, Part 1

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Finding a unique sound is one of the greatest challenges musicians face. And the Brooklyn-based duo Buke and Gass, (pronounced “byuke" and “gace") comprised of Arone Dyer and Aron Sanchez, took a real ground-up approach in this endeavor—they created new instruments.

Dyer, a veteran guitarist, plays a modified baritone ukulele (Buke) and Sanchez, a professional instrument-maker who builds custom instruments for Blue Man Group, plays the Gass, a sort of guitar-bass hybrid.

Add Dyer's charged, yet child-like lead vocals, harmonies from Sanchez, and several foot-controlled percussion devices, and Buke and Gass manages to create an impressively large sound.

An album-sized dose of said sound can be found on the wildly inventive debut, Riposte, which comes out today. The duo are in the midst of a North American tour, but they were kind enough to take time out of their busy North American touring schedule to speak with me about the new record, building instruments, and how those instruments affect their music-making.

Readers may notice a uniquely Canadian aspect in this first part of the interview. Part two, which was completed after Dyer and Sanchez crossed the border back into the U.S., offers a more reassuring American flavor.

Aron Sanchez, you make and design instruments professionally. What drew you to that in the first place, and how you wind up doing it for Blue Man Group? Was that what you intended to do when you joined the group, or did it sort of come up along the way? AS: Well, actually the first gig I did with them was building an instrument for their Chicago show when they were just opening that. Through that job I ended up auditioning for the show and got in and did that for a couple years. And then along the way I got less interested in doing the performance and wanted to be more involved on the production end. Those inclinations evolved into me being their instrument designer.

In designing for Blue Man, I'd imagine that they kind of want instruments that are as much form as they are function in order to enhance the visual aspects of the performance. Are there specific challenges related to that? AS: The work I did with Blue Man has been very sculptural. I was solving problems musically and in terms of performance, and I also had to basically create sculpture. It's a matter of consistently juggling both things; taking two issues into consideration all the time.

Does that lead to any compromises? I mean, are there times when you feel like you had something that was generating some really cool sounds and you kind of had to sacrifice a bit of that in order to make it look right, or did it always kind of come together?

AS:
I'm sure that happened at some point, but both things develop hand-in-hand in a way. So you end up always thinking about those problems at the same time and trying to triangulate to this point where all aspects of the instrument are working together.

You've said in a past interview that the current Gass that you play is the seventh iteration of the instrument, and that you built it out of a desire to do more than you could on a standard bass. What do you mean exactly by that—make more noise, create different chords and harmonies?

AS:
Mostly I just want to be able to make a lot of noise. I want to be able to do a lot of different things—do a lot of low bass stuff, but also be able to go very high and also be able to fill out a large spectrum of sonic texture and just like filling up our sound as much as I can. So with that instrument it's completely, it's all function. I had to figure out how to make this thing do this thing and then it ends up looking a certain way. I don't consider Gass a bass any more, or even something that's more than a bass. It's totally become it's own thing. The Gass only has two bass strings, along with four guitar strings. It started out more as a bass, like the first couple iterations, but then it just became something else.

Was there a certain point in developing it when you felt like “Okay, this instrument is finished? It's what I set out to build?" AS: Not really. I still have more ideas and things I want to try with it.

Are you building another one? AS: Yeah... whenever I get time to do it. The one that I'm playing is at a point where it's working for the songs that we play, so I guess you could say this is the 2010 Gass. This is the one that works for the record that we made and the songs that we're playing right now.

So when you start working on new material or going in a different direction you might start thinking about modifications?

AS:
Yes, and hopefully that's something this band will always be doing.

So, for Arone Dyer, I'm interested in the fact that you took a few years off from music before getting this project going with Aron. What made you decide to come back to it? Was it something specific about this project?

AD:
I've been a musician my entire life and I took this break out of some sort of necessity I guess. It had to happen, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. So I took the break, and then felt the familiar itch, it you will.

Is there something specific that draws you to unusual projects, such as what the two of you have going with Buke and Gass?

AD:
I think any of the music I've done is relatively unusual. Aron and I have played music on and off for 10 years and each project that we've been involved in has been just a little strange. I think with Buke and Gass we're able to complement each other without anybody else, whereas in the past we've had other band members or we've worked some sort of computer looping. This time it's all about what we can do real time as a duo. And I like that.

And, you played guitar for 18 years before you picked up the Buke. Is that right? AD: Well, I mean the Buke is basically a small guitar. And yes I've played guitar since I was 10.

Was it at all challenging to switch to something that's both so different and so familiar at the same time?

AD:
No. It's really the same thing.

So it really is a small guitar in terms of set up and how you play it?

AD:
Yeah, and I've been de-tuning the guitar since I was a kid. I taught myself, and my attitude was to go with whatever worked. So this baritone ukulele that is now a six-string miniature guitar is de-tuned, to an extent. But it's just like playing a regular guitar for me, except smaller.

When you perform does it require adjusting to different tunings for each song?

AD:
No it's just one setting. It's basically double drop D.

Gotcha. Now this is a question for both of you. There are times in many of your songs when you're each playing a different feel and layering the two on top of each other—a lot of polyrhythmic stuff going on. Can you talk a bit about your approach to rhythm in general?

AD:
Well, Aron and I have this funny little thing where we feel rhythms differently.

AS: In the counting, mostly in the counting.

AD: Yes,mostly in the counting. So, the way that we write music is we have our own separate count feel. We're basically on the same page, but I don't know how best to explain it...

AS: We're totally into rhythm and fucking it up as much as we can—messing ourselves up. I guess what Arone is referring to is we get ourselves into these rhythmic binds sometimes when we're each thinking the one is in a different place. That kind of puts us in some weird positions with the songs and as a result we end up in some interesting rhythmic places.

Are there instances when one of you is feeling something in triple meter and the other in duple meter?

AS:
Yeah, that kind of a thing, and then on top of that Arone might be saying,"No the one is there," and I'm like, “No, the one is there!"

Have you written out any charts for these things?

AS/AD (In Unison):
No!! Hahaha.

AD: Good luck.

Yeah, the new record struck me as sort of an intense undertaking from a transcriptional standpoint. Also touching on the subject of rhythm, it's really interesting to me that the two of you work together as the percussion section. You do a really good job of not making the percussion seem like an afterthought even though you're both playing other instruments and singing. What are the hurdles you face in trying to sync up in this regard? AS: We write the percussion parts as we're doing the string stuff.

AD: Yeah, everything is written together. For the percussion, it's all about tempo and how we can feel it as we're playing. For example, based on what else I'm doing I'll play the upbeats on percussion, and maybe Arone can fit in better on the downbeats, and in another song it could be the other way around. With the ankle bells I often think of it as accenting rather than keeping a steady flow of rhythm and syncopation. I want to use the percussion to support what we're already doing on the Buke and Gass.

AS: I end up feeling like I'm playing a drum kit, in which the Gass makes up the components of the kit aside from the bass drum. It's kind of like all one rhythmic instrument.

AD: Oh, can you call us back in a bit. We're about to cross the (Canada-U.S.) border.

Stay tuned for part two, coming tomorrow!

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